天人合一 克里希那穆提论幸福

【问与答】幸福是什么?(一)

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图片:英国布洛克伍德的克里希那穆提中心盛开的大蓟花
Questioner:What is happiness? I have always tried to find it but somehow it hasn’t come my way. I see people enjoying themselves in so many different ways and many of the things they do seem so immature and childish. I suppose they are happy in their own way, but I want a different kind of happiness. I have had rare intimations that it might be possible to get it, but somehow it has always eluded me. I wonder what I can do to feel really completely happy?
提问者:幸福是什么?我一直想找到它,但是不知怎的它就是不到我身 边来。我看到人们用多种不同的方式取悦自己,而他们做的很多事情看起来是那么幼稚和不成熟。我想他们是用自己的方式快乐着,但是我想要的是一种不同的幸 福。我曾得到过罕见的暗示说过幸福是可能得到的,但是不知怎的它总是躲避我。我想知道我要怎么做才能真正地感到完全的幸福?
Krishnamurti:Do you think happiness is an end in itself? Or does it come as a secondary thing in living intelligently?
克:你觉得幸福是个最终目标吗?还是在智慧的生活中,它只是随后才发生的事情?
Questioner:I think it is an end in itself because if there is happiness then whatever you do will be harmonious; then you will do things effortlessly, easily, without any friction. I am sure that whatever you do out of this happiness will be right.
提问者:我觉得它是个最终目标,因为如果有幸福,那么无论你做什么都是和谐的;那么你就会毫不费力地、轻松地做事情,没有任何冲突摩擦。我相信从这种幸福出发,你做的任何事情都是正确的。
Krishnamurti:But is this so? Is happiness an end in itself? Virtue is not an end in itself. If it is, then it becomes a very small affair. Can you seek happiness? If you do then probably you will find an imitation of it in all sorts of distractions and indulgences. This is pleasure. What is the relationship between pleasure and happiness?
克:但事实是如此吗?幸福本身是最终目标吗?美德本身不是最终目标。如果是,那么它就变成了很渺小的一件事。你能追求幸福吗?如果你追求它,那么你可能会发现它的一个赝品,表现为各种各样的消遣和享受。这是快感。快感和幸福之间的关系是什么?
Questioner:I have never asked myself.
提问者:我从未问过自己这个问题。
Krishnamurti:Pleasure which we pursue is mistakenly called happiness, but can you pursue happiness, as you pursue pleasure? Surely we must be very clear as to whether pleasure is happiness. Pleasure is gratification, satisfaction, indulgence, entertainment, stimulation. Most of us think pleasure is happiness, and the greatest pleasure we consider to be the greatest happiness. And is happiness the opposite of unhappiness? Are you trying to be happy because you are unhappy and dissatisfied? Has happiness got an opposite at all? Has love got an opposite? Is your question about happiness the result of being unhappy?
克:我们追求的快感被 误认为是幸福,但是你能像追求快感那样追求幸福吗?显然我们必须非常清楚一点,即快感是不是幸福。快感是满足、满意、享受、娱乐、刺激。我们大部分人都认 为快感就是幸福,最大的快感我们认为就是最大的幸福。而幸福是不幸的反面吗?你是不是因为不幸福不满足所以才追求幸福?幸福到底有没有对立面?爱有对立面 吗?你关于幸福的问题是不是不幸的结果?
Questioner:I am unhappy like the rest of the world and naturally I don’t want to be, and that is what is driving me to seek happiness.
提问者:我像世界上其他的人一样不快乐,当然我不想这样,正是这点驱使我去追求幸福。
Krishnamurti:So happiness to you is the opposite of unhappiness. If you were happy you wouldn’t seek it. So what is important is not happiness but whether unhappiness can end. That is the real problem, isn’t it? You are asking about happiness because you are unhappy and you ask this question without finding out whether happiness is the opposite of unhappiness.
克:所以对你来说幸福就是不幸的反面。如果你幸福,你就不会再追求幸福。所以重要的不是幸福,而是不幸能否终结。这才是真正的问题,不是吗?因为你不幸福,你就来问幸福的问题,而你问了这个问题却没发现幸福是不是不幸的反面。

【问与答】幸福是什么?(二)

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图片:英国布洛克伍德的克里希那穆提中心盛开的蔷薇花
Questioner:If you put it that way, I accept it. So my concern is how to be free from the misery I am in.
提问者:如果你这么说,我也接受。所以我关心的是,我要怎样摆脱我身处其中的痛苦。
Krishnamurti:Which is more important – to understand unhappiness or to pursue happiness? If you pursue happiness it becomes an escape from unhappiness and therefore it will always remain, covered over perhaps, hidden, but always there, festering inside. So what is your question now?
克:哪个更重要是了解不幸还是追求幸福?如果你追求幸福,那就变成了对不幸的逃避,所以不幸会继续,或许被掩盖、被隐藏起来,但是它始终在那儿,在内心溃烂着。那么你现在的问题是什么?
Questioner:My question now is why am I miserable? You have very neatly pointed out to me my real state, rather than given me the answer I want, so now I am faced with this question, how am I to get rid of the misery I am in?
提问者:我现在的问题是我为什么痛苦?你非常确切地指出了我的真实状态,而不是给我一个我想要的答案,所以现在我面对着这个问题,我要如何摆脱我身处的不幸?
Krishnamurti:Can an outside agency help you to get rid of your own misery, whether that outside agency be God, a master, a drug or a saviour? Or can one have the intelligence to understand the nature of unhappiness and deal with it immediately?
克:一个外部的媒介能够帮你去除你自己的不幸吗,不管这个外部媒介是上帝、上师、药物还是救世主?还是一个人得自己拥有了解不幸本质的智慧,并立即将其处理掉?
Questioner:I have come to you because I thought you might help me, so you could call yourself an outside agency. I want help and I don’t care who gives it to me.
提问者:我来找你,是因为我想你也许能帮我,所以你把自己称为一个外部媒介。我需要帮助,我不管能帮到我的是谁。
Krishnamurti:In accepting or giving help several things are involved. If you accept it blindly you will be caught in the trap of one authority or another, which brings with it various other problems, such as obedience and fear. So if you start off wanting help, not only do you not get help – because nobody can help you anyway – but in addition you get a whole series of new problems; you are deeper in the mire than ever before.
克:接 受或给予帮助,这涉及到几件事情。如果你盲目地接受,你就会困在这种或那种权威的陷阱中,而这会带来各种各样其他的问题,比如服从和恐惧。所以如果你从寻 求帮助开始,那么你不仅不能得到帮助因为根本没人能帮你而且你还会增加整整一系列的新问题;你就比以前陷入了更深的泥沼中。
Questioner:I think I understand and accept that. I have never thought it out clearly before. How then can I develop the intelligence to deal with unhappiness on my own, and immediately? If I had this intelligence surely I wouldn’t be here now, I wouldn’t be asking you to help me. So my question now is, can I get this intelligence in order to solve the problem of unhappiness and thereby attain happiness?
提问者:我想我明白也接受这点。我以前从没想清楚过这点。那么我要怎样才能获得这样的智慧,自己即刻就能处理这不幸?如果我有这种智慧,显然我现在就不会在这里了,我就不会来请你帮我了。所以现在我的问题是,我能获得这种智慧来解决不幸的问题进而获得幸福吗?
Krishnamurti:You are saying that this intelligence is separate from its action. The action of this intelligence is the seeing and the understanding of the problem,itself. The two are not separate and successive; you don’t first get intelligence and then use it on the problem like a tool. it is one of the sicknesses of thinking to say that one should have the capacity first and then use it, the idea or the principle first and then apply it. This itself is the very absence of intelligence and the origin of problems. This is fragmentation. We live this way and so we speak of happiness and unhappiness, hate and love, and so on.
克:你 是说这智慧与它的行动是分开的。这智慧的行动就是看到并理解问题本身。这两者不是分开的,也不是有先后关系的;你无法先获得智慧然后像使用工具一样用它来 解决问题。认为一个人必须先拥有能力,然后再使用它,先有想法或者原则然后再应用,这正是思考的弊病之一。这本身正是缺乏智慧,正是问题的根源。这是分 裂。我们正是这样生活的,所以我们谈论幸福和不幸、恨和爱,等等等等。
Questioner:Perhaps this is inherent in the structure of language.
提问者:或许语言的内在结构本身就是如此。
Krishnamurti:Perhaps it is but let’s not make too much fuss about it here and wander away from the issue. We are saying that intelligence, and the action of that intelligence – which is seeing the problem of unhappiness – are one indivisibly. Also that this is not separate from ending unhappiness or getting happiness.
克:也许是这样,但是我们在这里不要对此大惊小怪,远离主题。我们说那智慧,以及那智慧的行动也就是看清不幸的问题是不可分割的一体。同时这与终结不幸或者得到幸福也不是分开的。

【问与答】幸福是什么?(三)

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图片:英国布洛克伍德克里希那穆提中心的晨曦
Questioner:How am I to get that intelligence?
提问者:我要如何获得那智慧?
Krishnamurti:Have you understood what we have been saying?
克:你理解我们刚才说的话了吗?
Questioner:Yes.
提问者:是的。
Krishnamurti:But if you have understood you have seen that this seeing is intelligence. The only thing you can do is to see; you cannot cultivate intelligence in order to see. Seeing is not the cultivation of intelligence. Seeing is more important than intelligence, or happiness, or unhappiness. There is only seeing or not seeing. All the rest – happiness, unhappiness and intelligence – are just words.
克:可是如果你理解了,你就会明白这看到就是智慧。你唯一能做的一件事就是去看;你无法为了看到去培育智慧。”看到”不是培养智慧,”看到”比智慧、比幸福或者不幸都重要。只有看到还是没看到,其他的一切幸福、不幸和智慧只是词语而已。
Questioner:What is it, then, to see?
提问者:那么,”看到”是什么呢?
Krishnamurti:To see means to understand how thought creates the opposites. What thought creates is not real. To see means to understand the nature of thought, memory, conflict, ideas; to see all this as a total process is to understand. This is intelligence; seeing totally is intelligence; seeing fragmentarily is the lack of intelligence.
克:“看到”意味着了解思想是如何制造对立面的。思想制造的一切都不是真实的。”看到”意味着了解思想、记忆、冲突、观念的本质;作为一整个过程看到这一切就是了解。这就是智慧;整体地看到就是智慧;片面地看到就是缺乏智慧。
Questioner:I am a bit bewildered. I think I understand, but it is rather tenuous; I must go slowly. What you are saying is, see and listen completely. You say this attention is intelligence and you say that it must be immediate. One can only see now. I wonder if I really see now, or am I going home to think over what you have said, hoping to see later?
提问者:我有一点迷惑了。我想我理解了,但是相当牵强;我必须得慢慢来。你说的是,全然地看到和聆听。你说这全神贯注是智慧,你说这必须是即刻发生的。一个人只能现在看到。我不知道我现在是否真的看到了,还是我得回家好好想想你说的话,希望以后能看到?
Krishnamurti:Then you will never see; in thinking about it you will never see it because thinking prevents seeing. Both of us have understood what it means to see. This seeing is not an essence or an abstraction or an idea. You cannot see if there is nothing to see. Now you have a problem of unhappiness. See it completely, including your wanting to be happy and how thought creates the opposite. See the search for happiness and the seeking help in order to get happiness. See disappointment, hope, fear. All of this must be seen completely, as a whole, not separately. See all this now, give your whole attention to it.
克:那么你 就永远也看不到;如果去思考,你就永远看不到这点,因为思考妨碍了看到。我们都理解了”看到”意味着什么。这”看到”不是一种概括,也不是一种抽象、一个 观念。如果没什么东西可看,你就无法看到。现在你有个不幸的问题,完全地看到它,包括你想要幸福,以及思想如何制造出了对立面。看到对幸福的追求,看到为 了得到幸福去寻求帮助。看到失望、希望和恐惧,这一切必须被作为一个整体完全看到,而不是分开看到。现在来看这一切,用你全部的注意力去看。
Questioner:I am still bewildered. I don’t know whether I have got the essence of it, the whole point. I want to close my eyes and go into myself to see if I have really understood this thing. If I have then I have solved my problem.
提问者:我还是迷惑。我不知道我是否明白了其中的核心,这整个重点。我想闭上眼睛,深入到自己内心来看一看我是不是真的理解了这件事。如果我理解了,那么我就解决了我的问题。
(完)
The Urgency of Change – ‘Happiness’
《转变的紧迫性》之”幸福”


Blogger 于 3/30/2014 05:47:00 下午 发布在 天人合一

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