天人合一 克里希那穆提论幸福



Questioner:What is happiness? I have always tried to find it but somehow it hasn’t come my way. I see people enjoying themselves in so many different ways and many of the things they do seem so immature and childish. I suppose they are happy in their own way, but I want a different kind of happiness. I have had rare intimations that it might be possible to get it, but somehow it has always eluded me. I wonder what I can do to feel really completely happy?
提问者:幸福是什么?我一直想找到它,但是不知怎的它就是不到我身 边来。我看到人们用多种不同的方式取悦自己,而他们做的很多事情看起来是那么幼稚和不成熟。我想他们是用自己的方式快乐着,但是我想要的是一种不同的幸 福。我曾得到过罕见的暗示说过幸福是可能得到的,但是不知怎的它总是躲避我。我想知道我要怎么做才能真正地感到完全的幸福?
Krishnamurti:Do you think happiness is an end in itself? Or does it come as a secondary thing in living intelligently?
Questioner:I think it is an end in itself because if there is happiness then whatever you do will be harmonious; then you will do things effortlessly, easily, without any friction. I am sure that whatever you do out of this happiness will be right.
Krishnamurti:But is this so? Is happiness an end in itself? Virtue is not an end in itself. If it is, then it becomes a very small affair. Can you seek happiness? If you do then probably you will find an imitation of it in all sorts of distractions and indulgences. This is pleasure. What is the relationship between pleasure and happiness?
Questioner:I have never asked myself.
Krishnamurti:Pleasure which we pursue is mistakenly called happiness, but can you pursue happiness, as you pursue pleasure? Surely we must be very clear as to whether pleasure is happiness. Pleasure is gratification, satisfaction, indulgence, entertainment, stimulation. Most of us think pleasure is happiness, and the greatest pleasure we consider to be the greatest happiness. And is happiness the opposite of unhappiness? Are you trying to be happy because you are unhappy and dissatisfied? Has happiness got an opposite at all? Has love got an opposite? Is your question about happiness the result of being unhappy?
克:我们追求的快感被 误认为是幸福,但是你能像追求快感那样追求幸福吗?显然我们必须非常清楚一点,即快感是不是幸福。快感是满足、满意、享受、娱乐、刺激。我们大部分人都认 为快感就是幸福,最大的快感我们认为就是最大的幸福。而幸福是不幸的反面吗?你是不是因为不幸福不满足所以才追求幸福?幸福到底有没有对立面?爱有对立面 吗?你关于幸福的问题是不是不幸的结果?
Questioner:I am unhappy like the rest of the world and naturally I don’t want to be, and that is what is driving me to seek happiness.
Krishnamurti:So happiness to you is the opposite of unhappiness. If you were happy you wouldn’t seek it. So what is important is not happiness but whether unhappiness can end. That is the real problem, isn’t it? You are asking about happiness because you are unhappy and you ask this question without finding out whether happiness is the opposite of unhappiness.



Questioner:If you put it that way, I accept it. So my concern is how to be free from the misery I am in.
Krishnamurti:Which is more important – to understand unhappiness or to pursue happiness? If you pursue happiness it becomes an escape from unhappiness and therefore it will always remain, covered over perhaps, hidden, but always there, festering inside. So what is your question now?
Questioner:My question now is why am I miserable? You have very neatly pointed out to me my real state, rather than given me the answer I want, so now I am faced with this question, how am I to get rid of the misery I am in?
Krishnamurti:Can an outside agency help you to get rid of your own misery, whether that outside agency be God, a master, a drug or a saviour? Or can one have the intelligence to understand the nature of unhappiness and deal with it immediately?
Questioner:I have come to you because I thought you might help me, so you could call yourself an outside agency. I want help and I don’t care who gives it to me.
Krishnamurti:In accepting or giving help several things are involved. If you accept it blindly you will be caught in the trap of one authority or another, which brings with it various other problems, such as obedience and fear. So if you start off wanting help, not only do you not get help – because nobody can help you anyway – but in addition you get a whole series of new problems; you are deeper in the mire than ever before.
克:接 受或给予帮助,这涉及到几件事情。如果你盲目地接受,你就会困在这种或那种权威的陷阱中,而这会带来各种各样其他的问题,比如服从和恐惧。所以如果你从寻 求帮助开始,那么你不仅不能得到帮助因为根本没人能帮你而且你还会增加整整一系列的新问题;你就比以前陷入了更深的泥沼中。
Questioner:I think I understand and accept that. I have never thought it out clearly before. How then can I develop the intelligence to deal with unhappiness on my own, and immediately? If I had this intelligence surely I wouldn’t be here now, I wouldn’t be asking you to help me. So my question now is, can I get this intelligence in order to solve the problem of unhappiness and thereby attain happiness?
Krishnamurti:You are saying that this intelligence is separate from its action. The action of this intelligence is the seeing and the understanding of the problem,itself. The two are not separate and successive; you don’t first get intelligence and then use it on the problem like a tool. it is one of the sicknesses of thinking to say that one should have the capacity first and then use it, the idea or the principle first and then apply it. This itself is the very absence of intelligence and the origin of problems. This is fragmentation. We live this way and so we speak of happiness and unhappiness, hate and love, and so on.
克:你 是说这智慧与它的行动是分开的。这智慧的行动就是看到并理解问题本身。这两者不是分开的,也不是有先后关系的;你无法先获得智慧然后像使用工具一样用它来 解决问题。认为一个人必须先拥有能力,然后再使用它,先有想法或者原则然后再应用,这正是思考的弊病之一。这本身正是缺乏智慧,正是问题的根源。这是分 裂。我们正是这样生活的,所以我们谈论幸福和不幸、恨和爱,等等等等。
Questioner:Perhaps this is inherent in the structure of language.
Krishnamurti:Perhaps it is but let’s not make too much fuss about it here and wander away from the issue. We are saying that intelligence, and the action of that intelligence – which is seeing the problem of unhappiness – are one indivisibly. Also that this is not separate from ending unhappiness or getting happiness.



Questioner:How am I to get that intelligence?
Krishnamurti:Have you understood what we have been saying?
Krishnamurti:But if you have understood you have seen that this seeing is intelligence. The only thing you can do is to see; you cannot cultivate intelligence in order to see. Seeing is not the cultivation of intelligence. Seeing is more important than intelligence, or happiness, or unhappiness. There is only seeing or not seeing. All the rest – happiness, unhappiness and intelligence – are just words.
Questioner:What is it, then, to see?
Krishnamurti:To see means to understand how thought creates the opposites. What thought creates is not real. To see means to understand the nature of thought, memory, conflict, ideas; to see all this as a total process is to understand. This is intelligence; seeing totally is intelligence; seeing fragmentarily is the lack of intelligence.
Questioner:I am a bit bewildered. I think I understand, but it is rather tenuous; I must go slowly. What you are saying is, see and listen completely. You say this attention is intelligence and you say that it must be immediate. One can only see now. I wonder if I really see now, or am I going home to think over what you have said, hoping to see later?
Krishnamurti:Then you will never see; in thinking about it you will never see it because thinking prevents seeing. Both of us have understood what it means to see. This seeing is not an essence or an abstraction or an idea. You cannot see if there is nothing to see. Now you have a problem of unhappiness. See it completely, including your wanting to be happy and how thought creates the opposite. See the search for happiness and the seeking help in order to get happiness. See disappointment, hope, fear. All of this must be seen completely, as a whole, not separately. See all this now, give your whole attention to it.
克:那么你 就永远也看不到;如果去思考,你就永远看不到这点,因为思考妨碍了看到。我们都理解了”看到”意味着什么。这”看到”不是一种概括,也不是一种抽象、一个 观念。如果没什么东西可看,你就无法看到。现在你有个不幸的问题,完全地看到它,包括你想要幸福,以及思想如何制造出了对立面。看到对幸福的追求,看到为 了得到幸福去寻求帮助。看到失望、希望和恐惧,这一切必须被作为一个整体完全看到,而不是分开看到。现在来看这一切,用你全部的注意力去看。
Questioner:I am still bewildered. I don’t know whether I have got the essence of it, the whole point. I want to close my eyes and go into myself to see if I have really understood this thing. If I have then I have solved my problem.
The Urgency of Change – ‘Happiness’

Blogger 于 3/30/2014 05:47:00 下午 发布在 天人合一


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